common throughout america. cops using excessive force after years of antagonistic policing that sews distrust in the community. they're supposed to protect and serve but is actually occupied. why do black men fear and hate the police, for them to be a militarized force instead of part of the community? a book called "above the law: police and the excessive use of force" by jerome skolnick and james fyfe says police often view their work as an us versus them war rather than about community engagement. they also say, excessive police violence persists because of a lack of official account blt. policing is extraordinarily difficult and dangerous and most of them worry about not going home every day. i get that. the fear-based response means treating citizens like enemy combatants which can lead to many dead and police settlements in double digits annually in many cities.

this in a world where david kennedy had massive success by instituting community policing. this in a world where we could go case after case nationwide where police killed wrongly, unarmed amadou diallo shot 42 times in new york. orlando barlow shot and killed while surrendering on his knees in las vegas. oscar grant shot and killed in the back in oakland. aaron campbell shot and killed in his mother's house in portland. a jury would say it resulted from flawed police practices. steven washington, an autistic man, shot and killed in l.a. ramarli graham shot and killed in his bronx home for which cops have been charged with manslaughter. sean bell. and, and, and. when they march for kimani gray, they're marching for him and all those men and more, marching in pain for the black men and boys who police assumed were criminals and killed. america, we have to do better

and i know martin bashir knows what i'm talking about. >> i do, sir. thank you, toure. good afternoon. it's friday march the 15th. beware the ides of march. mitt romney returns to haunt republicans at cpac. >> what a sight you are. >> it is nice to be in a room full of conservatives for a change. >> we will not be demonized and we will not be silent. >> we have to get the momentum back. >> it is time to unite. >> governors saying it's the stupid party. what a horrible statement to make. >> the liberal media can keep hating on me. >> media bias played an overwhelming role in defining the candidates. >> the odds aren't looking so great right now for republicans that you're on a suicide mission. >> you're going to hear this afternoon from marco rubio, the r.g. iii of american politics. >> we don't need a new idea. there is an idea. the idea is called america.

>> our country is a total mess. >> they call me crazy? they call us crazy? they say we're crazy? i mean. >> i've made over $8 billion. >> i utterly reject pessimism. ♪ ain't nothing but a party good afternoon, we begin with the republican retreat where the gop is facing its severely complicated future. it's known as the conservative political action conference, or as we like to call it, cpac. the conundrum at hand, how to find a broader audience in a changing world. and who better to answer that question than the man who would be president? severely conservative, losing candidate, mitt romney. taking the stage to his kid rock campaign anthem, "born free,"

romney took the podium for his first big post-election speech and he began with a mea culpa. >> it's up to us to make sure that we learn from our mistakes, and my mistakes, and that we take advantage of that learning to make sure that we take back the nation, take back the white house. >> romney then launched into a version of his campaign stump speech before closing with bittersweet resolve to move forward. >> i'm sorry i won't be your president, but i will be your co-worker and i'll work shoulder to shoulder alongside you. >> he loves you guys. and they love him back. all as "politico" put it, mitt romney gets b-list treatment at cpac. quoting an attendee, he's kind of last year. oh, dear. have a flutternutter cupcake, mitt. it's all right. what about his running mate, paul ryan? certainly this young man can

rile up the crowd, bring rock 'n' roll to the room. i mean, nothing gets him going like a good old bash of the democratic budget. >> they call their budget a foundation for growth. restoring the promise of american opportunity. but when you read it, you find that the vatican's not the only place blowing smoke this week. >> oh, zing. the catskill comedy clubs are lighting up the switch boards even as i speak. that kind of edge must be what mitch mcconnell was talking about when he joked about the gop contrast to the next round of democratic presidential hopefuls. >> don't tell me democrats are the party or the future when their presidential ticket for 2016 is shaping up to look like a rerun of the "golden girls." >> now it's good to see mitch mcconnell looking so pleased with himself, but it's worth remembering that the "golden girls" was immensely popular, rated in the top ten for six of

its seven seasons. never mind. republicans do deserve a good laugh and the jokes today for plentiful. for example, donald trump. >> i've made over $8 billion. the opec nations, they're all friends of mine, i know them all, they think we are the stupidest people on earth. why aren't we letting people in from europe? now, i'd buy all my televisions from south korea. you see these guys -- you see these guys on television. they can't buy a clean shirt. and they're saying, donald trump he's nothing. >> oh, mr. trump, i would never say you are nothing. you are quite something, indeed. joining us now from the center of this three-ring circus. anna marie cox, correspondent for "the guardian." with us, msnbc political analyst, professor michael eric dyson. anna marie, you've been right there at the heart of it. all. i hope you've had time to catch your breath after mitt romney's blistering heart-stopping speech this afternoon. what have been the highlights

today at the gaylord hotel? do tell us. >> actually, mitt romney's speech was interesting. i guess actually, you know what, it really says something that mitch mcconnell was the one who really brought energy to cpac. i think that, you know, yesterday had a lot of energy when rand paul was here. he really got people on their feet. today his has been more sedate, even though it's more people that are supposedly running for president in 2016. actually i just want to point out, behind me, it was really, really empty about 15 minutes ago because the panel was about outreach to minority and women. that to me sums up cpac in one particular image. >> yes, that's true. anna marie, we'll pause for a moment. the scintillating speaker, eric cantor, is at the podium. let's listen to him for two seconds. >> too bright, that she needed more opportunity than that school could give her. the teacher told essence to apply for the louisiana scholarship program. a program which would ensure that --

>> okay. i think we've had enough of that. professor dyson, it's been tough to keep up with the goings on at cpac. we've had senator kelly ayotte asking why aren't we intervening in see so seyria and iran? we've had wayne lapierre. we had mitt romney politely -- cpac for failing to invite the two most popular republican governors. if one were looking for the singular message from the republican party, would it be g guns, governors and gung-ho overseas? >> that is something that is alluring and appealing. yeah, the reality is that the right wing right now and the conservatives are really in disarray. they're trying to figure out what the soul of the party is about. what the anatomy of the movement will look like. so they're out here casting as wide a net as possible. they're missing, however, an

opportunity to outreach, as anna marie said, as miss cox said, to minorities and the hall is empty. they can take advantage of inherent conservatiatisatiscons refuse to make the political bridge to the communities they could exploit in good way. the problem is they have no interest in doing so, but they have no knowledge intimately of these communities. which means also that they don't have a sense of the broad spectrum of americans out here who might be a bit more simp sympathetic to some conservative ideas should they be presented in a very feasible and a very logical and rational manner. alas, what you have, are people on the lunatic fringe out here saying all matters of things and as a result of that, the infighting is pretty interesting. >> okay. anna marie, is there in your view a unifying message that you can see taking shape at cpac? do you think, for example, the grief over the presidential election has now been fully ventilated? are they prepared to move forward?

are they coalescing around any policies or any ideas? >> i think the thing they're really coalescing is what happened and what do we do next? that seems to be sort of the question that each speaker is trying to answer. i think only marco rubio got up there and said that there was nothing wrong with the republican party and that they should just keep on doing what they're doing. almost every other speaker, even the ones that represent republican leadership, have pointed out the deficiencies in the last campaign and in the republican party. i've got to say, i agree with the professor. this last panel on minority outreach and outreach to women was mainly all women and their main thing was saying why didn't we do x, y, z? why didn't we reach out to women in this way, reach out to minorities in this way? you know, i think we have an answer why the republican party didn't reach out in those ways, because there aren't enough people in the republican party who think like minorties and women. are aren't enough people who are minorities and women who make the arguments professor dyson was talking about. >> wow. professor dyson, in terms of passing the torch, romney gave a

shout-out tohis former running mate, paul ryan. i'd like to play something mr. ryan said about his own view of government. take a listen. >> before all else, government must work. it must function. government must function because chaos is fertile soil for liberalism. >> professor, i'm sure that's terrifying to the cpac crowd, but then why have republicans been repeatedly manufacturing one budget crisis after another, whether it's the fiscal cliff, the debt ceiling, or the sequester, if they want government to function? >> yeah, i think they got their universes mixed up. across theory is big in physics. so is string theory. they're stringing us along. they're trying to deny the legitimacy of any kind of countervailing argument that could put their stuff into context, to say your budget is really shrinking the ability of

most americans to be able to eat every day. you're shredding the safety net. you are casting aside to the margins those people who are already working class and barely middle class and who can't make it. god knows what the working poor do which means they get up and work 40, 50, 60 hours a week and still can't make ends meet. this is a draconian measure deployed by people who seem to be out of touch. i think cpac reinforces and underscores the fact they're so far out of touch that they're in a different universe here. they have to come back to earth. there's a crisis going on, all right, martin, but they don't seem to be in touch with it. as long as they refuse to acknowledge the crisis is in the belly of their own beast, they won't be able to make something different happen the next time around. >> good luck with that. anna marie, final question to you. we know there was immense expectation and excitement at donald trump speaking this morning. can you tell us, is it possible for you to find words to

describe the kind of fervor that is building in preparation for the arrival of one sarah palin? >> you know what, i haven't heard a single person mention her name. i'm totally serious. that is not a name i've heard come up from anyone. there are people -- people will turn out for her because she's a name. people here at cpac turn out for celebrities just like anyone else. in fact, i want to make sure that's clear -- >> anna maria, i'm sorry, forgive me, but i'm now speechless. you just said, if i quote you verbatim, you have not heard a single person mention the name sarah palin? >> it's true. i really haven't. i don't think -- i mean, she is as big a mystery as donald trump coming here. there are people here who complained about donald trump being mere. they don't feel like he represents cpac. if you don't represent cpac, who do you represent? sarah palin, she's certainly not the future of the party. talk about someone who is so last year. she was so four years ago. i'll be interested to see what the reception is for her.

i imagine she'll trot out the red meat that is popular here and get a lot of applause. i don't think that means she has a future with any of the people here. >> absolutely astonished. anna marie cox, michael eric dyson. thank you so much. next, wayne lapie prrrre sp at cpac and wonders why some call him crazy. >> they call me crazy. they call us crazy. they call me crazy. they call us crazy. they say we're crazy. [ birds chirping ] i'm your hot water heater. you hardly know i exist. that's too bad. 'cuz if my pressure relief valve gets stuck... [ booooooom! ] ...we hot water heaters can transform into rocket propelled wrecking balls. and if you got the wrong home insurance coverage, it's your bank account that might explode. so get allstate.

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the nra's wayne lapierre delivered a performance at cpac

today that repeatedly brought the audience of young conservatives to their feet. the crowd's reaction was especially strong to his warnings against universal background checks. a measure that was approved this week by the senate judiciary committee and also enjoys the support of about 90% of the american peel. but according to mr. lapierre's logic, background checks are nothing but a trojan horse devised by scurrilous liberals who want to create a list of every single gun owner in the united states. and what would happen to such a list? >> so the list could be hacked by foreign entities like the chinese who recently hacked pentagon papers. so a list can be handed over to the mexican government that oh, by the way, they've already requested that list from our government. >> we're joined now by representative jim moran, democrat of virginia. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon, martin. >> this is not our first expedition into the paranoid world of mr. wayne lapierre and

today he says that china and mexico are trying to get their hands on our guns. he even suggests mexico may acquire a list of all american gun owners. sir, as an elected member of government, are you aware of any plans by the u.s. government to hand over a list? >> no, martin. and, in fact, we looked everywhere we could for any evidence whatsoever that not only a list, but any request exists. we can't find any requests on the part of the mexican government. you know, this is just about paranoia and fear and, of course, if you're operating in a fact-free zone, as cpa krrc seeo be over at the national harbor there, you know, one speech after the another, they're appealing to people's fear of the government, of foreigners, and using these -- this supposed

information that just it doesn't exist. so, but that's his tactic, and it's pretty effective, unfortunately, with a group like that. but, of course, you know, the american people are being more and more distanced from these folks. >> congressman, i'd like you to take a listen to a little more from the conference. >> please. >> while gun ownership is at an all time high in this country right now, we've -- >> now, congressman, he gets a big round of applause from the audience for saying that, that gun ownership is at record highs, but it's not true. in fact, the household gun ownership rate has fallen from about 50% in the 1970s down to 34% today. does this not indicate the desperation that is running through the nra, given its willingness to simply tell lies in public? >> you're absolutely right. that is a fact that can be

verified, martin. it's gone from just over 50% down to about 1/3 right now in terms of households that own guns. but it doesn't mean that more guns aren't being sold. but they're being sold to people who are increasing their collections. we're having more, finding more and more households who basically are collecting arsenals of weapons. and that ought to be a concern to everyone. and, of course, as far as the nra is concerned, it's only a matter of the more guns of whatever guns that you can sell to whoever. that's their objective. so they're still meeting their objective. as i say, i think they're becoming less and less representative of mainstream america. >> yesterday in the senate, we saw a fairly ugly display by senator ted cruz who had the temerity to lecture senator dianne feinstein about guns. she has a bill that would restore the assault weapons ban which expired.

and as our colleague rachel maddow pointed out last night, this ban might have prevented the newtown shooter from getting a buschmaster assault rifle. why is it that republicans say they share your concern about gun violence, but whenever there's an opportunity to do something, they simply turn and walk in the opposite direction? >> yes. the irony is that this is an extraordinary example of political cowardace by people like ted cruz and those who are so easily swintimidated by the nra. senator feinstein has tremendous courage, as well as being one of the sharpest intellects in the united states senate. the vast majority of her colleagues know that. cruz is a newbie. perhaps he doesn't realize the kind, the level of respect that has been earned from senator feinstein's colleagues.

but to do that, what it did was really to marginalize senator cruz. now, clearly he's trying to stake out a political position to the right of the republican party and it keeps getting more and more difficult as every republican seems to kowtow to the nra with very few exceptions. but, you know, at some point, he keeps trying to get to the further and further to the right, he's just going to fall off the cliff in terms of rationality. >> just a final question, sir. this week the president has made extensive attempts to reach out to republicans, to try and reach some kind of agreement on a grand bargain of some kind. have you been disappointed by what you've seen at places like cpac which seems to suggest that there's just no willingness whatsoever to compromise at all? >> no, they really are there to make sure that the people who want to get the support of cpac are not going to compromise on

anything. but, of course, they've largely won -- you look at the ryan budget, for example, it prohibits the obama administration from carrying out the benefits of implementing the administrati administrative logistics that are necessary to provide the benefits of what they call obama care, but it takes all of the revenue that comes in. all of the revenue ryan takes credit for then he cuts out the benefits trying to ensure it doesn't work. does something similar are dodd/frank, and, of course, it's more benefits for the wealthy and with deeper cuts for the poor who need it and less investment in america. i hope that enough of the american people are watching this debate so that they continue to realize that the middle is where president obama is and i think the vast majority of democrats and hopefully, you

know, we can get some republicans to come onboard. but when you have these cpac conferences and you see mr. cantor just kowtowing to their agenda, the prospects are not bright. >> congressman jim moran, sir. thank you very much for joining us this friday. >> sure. >> stay with us. we have much more ahead. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles military families face, we understand. our financial advice is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. life brings obstacles. usaa brings retirement advice. but once a week i let her play sheriff so i can wash it. i use tide to get out those week old stains and downy to get it fresh and soft. you are free to go. [ dad ] tide and downy together.

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for current and former military members and their families. get advice from the people who share your values. for our free usaa retirement guide, call 877-242-usaa. after meeting with both parties this week, the president left washington today. he traveled to a national science and engineering laboratory just outside of chicago to push his clean energy agenda and urge congress to fund research into emerging technologies that will power the next generation of american cars. nbc's mike viqueira joins us live from the capitol. mike, i'm not going to ask you where you've been for a while. a number of our viewers have been asking that question including my wife. i know you've been busy. i know you've been busy. the white house is saying this

research has been paid for with revenue from federal oil and gas leases an offshore drilling and would not add to the deficit. you were there on capitol hill thursday and you had the chance, i believe, to ask the president about his meetings with republicans. now, based on his answer, can we expect full republican support for this energy research? >> reporter: i don't think so. i think his answer to me, first of all, was kind of -- there i am shouting at him as he's traversing from the senate side to the house side by the trolley that runs underground here between the capitol and the senate office buildings. and so, you know, there's this sort of ritual when the president moves about -- although i have to tell you, martin, we haven't seen him up here three days in a row, or any president, ever, since the time i've been here. republicans walked out of the meeting not talking about clean energy as you might be able to imagine. they came out talking about, wait for it, the keystone pipeline. pressing the president. there was a senator from north dakota, senator hogan, pressed the president on when that

approval, they hope, might be coming. obviously there's some core democratic constituencies who hope it goes the other way. and the president's answer was, well, by the end of the year. that's certainly not a surprise. he did say sooner rather than later. that's the big fight on energy coming out now. the president proposed $200 million a year in research to be funded by the mechanism you describe. no chance of that happening, at least not this year with republicans in charge of the house of representatives, martin. >> right. finally, mike, i think ted cruz is giving an interview just behind you. would you like to shout something at him so he could add to our program this afternoon? >> reporter: no. no. that would be against the decorum of the united states senate, although lately some people aren't observing that decorum. >> mr. viqueira, you always do. thank you so much. >> reporter: thank you very much. >> stay with us. the day's top lines are coming up. mom always got good nutrition to taste great. she was a picky eater. well now i'm her dietitian and last year, she wasn't eating so well. so i recommended boost complete nutritional drink

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ryan, to one big cpactacular. here are the day's top lines. the week in review. >> completely awesome. >> history will be kind to my brother. >> fool me once. >> who's the hottest florida politician right now? >> man, you guys are crack addicts. >> look at the size of that trunk. >> we hold used car salesmen to higher standards. >> can put three bodies in there. >> obama's charm offensive. >> more of a smarm offensive. >> this is going to take more than dinner dates and phone calls. >> any signs of white smoke? >> i think that was george stephanopoulos. >> you're straining the analysis. >> i feel like bill murray in the movie "groundhog day." >> i'm a god. not the god. >> ryan did this last year. >> and the year before that. >> indeed. >> the appeal of obama care? >> yes. >> that's not going to happen. >> don't simply feed fish. >> i don't think most people understand the calculators you guys in washington use. >> i find this criticism a little confusing. >> you're not a god. you can take my word for it.

this is 12 years of catholic school talking. >> msnbc's finest offensive lineman, ed schultz. >> it was my duty to make sure as many people heard it as possible. >> there are 47% of the people. you know, when you speak in private. >> the election wasn't even that close. >> i know what that feels like. >> you've stood up for working people throughout the time you've been on this network. >> listening to cruz, i felt like i was listening to a supreme court argument. >> all of us should begin as our foundational document. >> i felt patronized, felt he was somewhat arrogant about it. >> liberal women should not be able to hold office. >> cpac, that convention is this week. >> real hero of the conservative movement. >> rat heads in a coke bottle. >> marco rubio, r.g. iii of american politics. >> we don't need a new idea. there is an idea. the idea is called america. >> they call me crazy. >> the left can always promise more stuff. >> but republicans had actually nominated conservatives. >> the gop of old has grown moss covered. >> mitt made one mistake.

he didn't talk enough about his success. >> i'm sorry i won't be your president, but i will be your co-worker and i'll work shoulder to shoulder alongside you. >> let's get right to our panel. ari melber, correspondent for "the nation." ron myer, msnbc political analyst. welcome to you both. ron, you just announced you're considering a run for the house in virginia. what is it about washington that makes a young man who frankly isn't even old enough yet to take a seat in congress, but will be if you run in 2014? what makes you want to do this? >> well, i think it's actually really basic. washington is pushing a lot of the long-term problems and doing the short-term sort of pushing the deadline, making these manufactured deadlines. pushing everything to the next generation. saying, you know what, young people, you're going do have to deal with this later when it comes to debt, social security, medicare. they're saying you guys will have to take care of it. >> you're not satisfied with paul ryan's budget? that's not good enough for you? >> we can get into this. generally in washington, both parties, especially during the bush administration and especially more during the obama

administration, pushing everything to future generations. if you're going to push everything to the future generations, it's time we stand up for ourselves and have someone in the future generations stand up and lead now. if you're going to push everything on us, punt all the problems to us, we're going to stand up and say, that's not right, not fair, not moral. the fact of the matter is the interest payments on the debt, alone, are going to bankrupt us. talking about going from $250 billion a year which we pay on interest now to $1 trillion a year ten years down the road. where are we going to get the $750 billion? >> so your solution is immediate austerity, cut everything? >> no. you know, if we were actually to freeze government spending now we'd have a balanced budget in four years according to cbo. >> you support the rand paul approach which would be to balance the budget miraculously in five years? >> i don't thing it's miraculous. we're not cutting anything. we're spending what we spend now, next year and the year after that and year after that and put long-term solutions in place that are bipartisan. some of the stuff in irskine/bowles. the obama administration unwound

a lot of clinton policies that give power to the states to make decisions when it comes to welfare programs. if we undo all the solutions that save us money, empower people, give people the right to rise instead of keep them at poverty like they are now. that's a good message. >> ari, ron's position is to balance the budget in four years. so that's one year shorter than rand paul promises. what would that do to the economy? >> i think you cannot get these kind of cuts without -- >> what cuts? i'm talking about freezing -- >> hold on. i know you're a young politician. i like young politicians more than old politicians. but whatever you are, you got to wait. because i let you go. right? let's do that. i think the answer is if you look at taking a big bite out of the jobs in the public sector, and taking away the spending that goes throughout the entire economy, that hurts growth. that's the biggest problem. i think an issue for you is i think it's great to have someone who's 23 out there running. i think that is great in both parties. we have way too many senior citizens making decisions for the rest of us.

i'm with that. the question i have for you is, if you're going to go in your district, prince william counties is one of the biggest counties. >> 70,000 federal workers. >> you know where i'm going. that's the debate have. what's the largest employer there? >> 70,000 people. 1 out of every 10 people in my district works for the federal government. >> you're going to run. this is the question. you're going to run and tell those people you're going to take away their jobs? >> it's a really simple message. $250 billion a year on interest payments now. $1 trillion -- >> let's go to your constituency. let's go to your constituency. >> we have $750 billion we're going to add to the budget deficit in ten years. where are we going to get the money? through massive tax hikes or more likely massive government cuts. if we have an unsustainable government now and get to the point where interest payments are pushing it, we're constitutionally obligated to f pay for the debt every year. when we get to a point where the spending now -- we're on a pace of spending where we're going to have to have dramatic cuts, where is it going to hurt?

my district. northern virginia. we're going to have to fire government workers that work in vital sectors of the economy. >> here's a question i'd like to put to both of you. starting with you, ron. hasn't the experiment of austerity been tried in europe already? let's just go to the austerity. at the moment the imf says the european economy will contract over the next year by 1.2%. the same organization says the american economy will grow by 2%. not massive. in the eurozone, the recession is going to last for another 18 months. unemployment in spain, 26%. unemployment in italy, 37% for youth. britain is in a triple recession. britain's pound is at its lowest rate in three years. those nations, that whole continent tried exactly what you just proposed and they are stuck in a -- >> where are they starting from? most of these european countries, they have 50% tax rates. they're already starting at a point where they'll have a hard time recovering. france has 75% tax rate. >> that's only just been raised.

britain is 40%. let's just get the -- >> it's still high. >> if you're talking local taxes included -- >> what i'm trying to put to you, really, ron, is the idea of slashing the budget. >> not slashing. >> and balancing the budget in the way that you propose and way rand paul did this week and the way paul ryan does. >> i just don't understand -- >> all of the best kmist economn the world are telling us all that would do is force us back into a recession. >> i don't understand. remember, when the government spends $1, it has to take it from the private sector. you're taking money out. actually my girlfriend had a great article on this that if you look at our deficit, $1 trillion, how many jobs does that equal? over 100,000 jobs that we're taking out of the economy and spending in the deficits. it's this idea, this liberal multiplier effect that government spending is good for the economy. remember, where does the money come from? our pocketbook, from people's private property. it comes from somebody -- you're taking someone's phone, taking someone's piece of their car. you're taking real property to

pay for government spending. >> one second. okay. great. ari? >> i want some of his coffee. >> you do? >> i think you have a lot of energy. >> maybe something he's been smoking as well? >> the problem is if we peel back the energy and excitement which i think is great, again, for the system, and you were part of saying fire boehner because you wanted something more extreme. the republican party right now -- >> how is balancing the budget -- >> hold on. come on. let's go back and forth. the republican party right now has john boehner up there and rand paul and paul ryan trying to cut government to the bone and then to their right they have people like you who have a lot of energy but have the wrong ideas. the problem is, we never heard in this presentation what was going to happen to those people who lost their jobs. the people that fill the district that you're running for. you have a campaign left. you have to out there and speak directly to them. those people can not disappeared. it remind me of the republicans'

problems of gay americans who want the same rights. if you're not in your family, they don't get those rights. if you don't see these jobs, you don't care about those jobs. your party is talking about white house tours and federal spending. we're not seeing the real spending. the problem is, what we see at cpac and the conservative media. out in the country, people are getting gust rated with that. you have to find a way, my advice to you, find a way to talk to those people, not disappear them from the conversation. >> ari melber and ron myer, i wish we had more time. it's been great to you here. of course, we wish you all the best if you do choose to run. next the growing divide on gay marriage within the republican party. stay with us. the patient, presented with a hairline fracture to the mandible and contusions to the metacarpus. what do you see?

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says that the experience of his own son has transformed his understanding of who should have the right to marry. >> i've come to the conclusion that for me, personally, i think this is something that we should allow people to do, to get married and to have the joy and stability of marriage that i've had for over 26 years. i want all three of my kids to have it including our son who is gay. >> joinedmy my colleague, toure, co-host of the "cycle" and julian epstein, a democratic strategist. toure, notwithstanding what rob portman has said, eric cantor and speaker john boehner both said they don't agree, though they respect his view. do you think they would change their minds if one of their own children would decide to come out and say they were gay publicly? >> i suspect they would. i don't want to engage at hypothetic hypotheticals. look at somebody like dick cheney coming around an gay rights and gay marriage. this is what's happening in america. more and more people are seeing they have gay people in their family, in their friend circle.

people they love though they disagree ideologically. they say, wait a minute, those two things don't fit. this is a human being who i love and ro respect. they're not a strange person. they're a normal human being who did something different with their heart. they're saying, wait a minutes this is not compatible. they're changing their mind on the issues. it's the explosion of people coming out of the closet making other straight people say, i need to get right on this issue. it's interesting portman accepted his son with his heart almost right away according to his story. but then had to intellectually figure out how do i reconcile this with my christian faith and comes around to the idea of the golden rule and compassion and through that way he reconciles it as a christian. i am very much in respect of the discussion, the intellectual direction that portman is taking. >> okay. j julian, the two supreme court will hear two arguments, challenging doma and prop 8 in california.

the president, himself, said his position on gay marriage has now evolved. republicans do appear to find themselves in a difficult place, don't they? on the one hand wanting to hold firm to principles, but at the same time acknowledging that the nation, the nation is adjusting its view of gay marriage? >> yes. i think that's correct. i think to toure's point, it's not just an intellectual evolution, it's an emotional evolution. it's interesting how when you have an experience with a particular group or class that has been mistreated in the past, how your views about their political rights may also evolve. i think some people could use a little bit more of that on some other issues we've discussed. what's happening in the supreme court is interesting to your question, martin. the california prop 8 case and doma. these are coming under the equal protection clause of the constitution. both the fifth amendment and the 14th amendment. and if the court, as many observers including myself think that they will, if they apply what is known as, not to get too

technical, intermediate scrutiny, it's going to be difficult for me ban on gay march, the federal doma statute or any of the state statutes to survive. if the court applies intermediate scrutiny, and watch for justice kennedy, that is going to mean the government has to have an important interest that is advanced by banning gay marriage. and if you read the briefs that are filed before the supreme court, even the defenders of the ban on gay marriages find it very difficult to argue what government interest is being advanced by forbidding gay marriages. so i think it is likely the court applies the standard. if it does, then i think it's an end to these bans and i think states are not going to be able to impose these prohibitions. even if they don't, if you look at how the politics have changed on this. the demographic changes of the united states, the incredible public opinion changes. it is a matter of time, now, before the public, through referendum or through their state legislatures are going to

make marriage equality the laws in all 50 states. it's just a matter of time at this point. >> i agree with almost everything you said. i just -- i know that kennedy wants to be progressive on gay rights, but i know he also doesn't want to get too far aheaded ahead of the country and legislate from the bench. i don't know if he wants to make it the law of the land, but i think we are definitely moving toward national marriage equality. >> keep in mind 100 were conservatives who wrote a brief to the court saying they should get that kind of intermediate scrutiny. >> toure, julian epstein. thank you so much. ten years of the iraq war, a man -- sorry, a war that killed almost 200,000 people and could cost as much as $6 trillion, dick cheney remains completely unapologetic. stay with us. martin, stocks finishing in negative territory heading into the weekend with the dow snapping a ten-day win streak, and the s&p 500 still shy of its record closing level. the dow down 25. the nasdaq lower by 9. the np shedding two points.

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next week marks the tenth anniversary of the invasion of iraq and premiering tonight on show time, we have a brand new documentary that's focused on one of the war's most powerful architects. it's called "the world according to dick cheney" and just in case you're wondering, no, he's not sorry about anything. in fact, he doesn't even think about the iraq war all that much. he's too busy fly fishing. >> i don't run around thinking, gee, i wish we'd done this or wish we'd done that. the world is as you find it. you've got to deal with that. you get one shot. you don't get do-overs. you don't spend a lot of time

thinking about it. >> joined by r.j. cutler, director of "the world according to dick cheney." r.j., great to have you here. given that the critique of some who have seen the film is that you were, perhaps, a little bit too fair to him. because on a number of occasions, there's not the opportunity to ask the supplementary question. particularly, for example, in relation to the deceit regarding weapons of mass destruction. or, indeed, his ability to hide what was happening with wiretapping from president george w. bush. what's your reaction to that criticism? >> well, my intent in making the film was to tell vice president cheney's story with his voice at the center of it, and to include other voices, voices of his harshest critics, as well as his fiercest supporters, and to arrive at the truth as i believed history would see it. the film is structured as a

tragedy. you see dick cheney rise to enormous power. he learns, as a young man, how to acquire it and manipulate it. he learns a lot of it from donald rumsfeld. and throughout his career, he finds that by associating himself with those who have great power, he can acquire great power, himself. >> that sounds like a triumph, not a tragedy. >> it is until it turns. and then the world around dick cheney changes even though the world according to dick cheney doesn't change at all. and that's where the tragic structure comes in. i tell the tale. it's not my role to make the judgment. it's not my role to prosecute. it's my role to tell the story, and i believe history will agree that this is the truth about who dick cheney was, what he believed, how he did what he did, and its impact on this country. >> it took you something like seven months to actually get him to agree to do this film.

how much time did you spend with him, and did you end up liking him as a man? >> we spoke over a four-day period. five hours a day. a total of 20 hours. then on the fifth day, as you mentioned, he invited us to go fly fishing with him. it's the first time he'd gone fly fishing since his heart attack. and he was very welcoming to us. i mean, he -- he was cordial and friendly and, yes, it's hard, i think, not to like him as a person. he's very engaging. politics are a different issue, and we have different politics and that's something that was no secret to him. he knew that, and i was very upfront about that when i met him. but most of all, i was there to tell his story and to encourage him to speak his mind in the way that he didn't need much encourage encouragement, because he's a man who knows his mind. as you say, he's a man who's not

apologetic, not in retreat in any way. >> r.j. cutler. thank you very much. and good luck with the film. go to e-trade and find out how much our advice and guidance costs. spoiler alert: it's low. it's guidance on your terms, not ours. e-trade. less for us. more for you. i'm maria, and i have diabetic nerve pain. i felt like my feet were going to sleep. it was like pins and needles sticking in your toes and in your feet. it progressed from there to burning like i was walking on hot coals. at that point, i knew i had to do something. when i went to see my doctor, she chose lyrica. once i started taking the lyrica, the pain started subsiding. [ female announcer ] it's known that diabetes damages nerves. lyrica is fda approved to treat diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is not for everyone. it may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior.